S4E4: From Fashion Model to Frontend Developer With Madison Kanna

This episode was transcribed with the help of an AI transcription tool. Please forgive any typos.

Laurence Bradford 0:06
Hey listeners. Welcome to the Learn to Code With Me podcast. I'm your host, Laurence Bradford. Before we get into today's episode, I just want to remind you that you can get the Show Notes for this episode in every other episode at learntocodewith.me/podcast. And if you enjoy the show, make sure to subscribe on whichever podcast player you listen on. And if you're feeling particularly generous, a review would be awesome too. Here's a quick word from our sponsors who helped make the show possible.

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Laurence Bradford 1:18
In today's episode I talk with Madison Kanna, a software engineer at Conversio. We talked about how she went from a college dropout to fashion model, and then to a front end developer, and how now Madison is moving into full stack web development. We even get into how she landed a job at a startup, what it's like to work remotely and lots more. If you enjoy this interview, you might be inspired to learn a new skill. In that case, you should know about Udemy. Udemy is an online marketplace with thousands of courses. They have courses on web development, app design, data science, individual languages, like Python and HTML so on. So if you feel inspired to learn something new, go to learntocodewith.me/Udemy. That's U-D-E-M-Y. In there, you'll find a perfect course for you. Heads up, that is an affiliate link. So if you do buy a course, you'll also be supporting the show at no extra cost to yourself. Thanks in advance.

Laurence Bradford 2:27
Now, let's get to today's interview. Madison cannot transition careers from fashion model to software engineer in just one year. She's now a software engineer at Conversio and a blogger at MadisonKanna.com. She also has a Udemy course JavaScript for beginners.

Laurence Bradford 2:48
Hey, Madison, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Madison Kanna 2:50
Thanks for having me on. I'm a big fan of your podcast.

Laurence Bradford 2:53
Yes, I'm so thrilled that you listened to the show before that's definitely an exciting surprise and really excited to have you on So you were doing a bunch of different things before you got into tech. Can you talk about that a bit?

Madison Kanna 3:05
Definitely. So I think when I was around 21, I dropped out of college because I felt like I wasn't learning any real world skills. And I wasn't sure what I wanted to do yet. So I decided to try a couple of different jobs. I worked in marketing for a little while. And then I worked as a fashion model with an agency. And around that time, my older sister was, she still is a senior software engineer at Eventbrite. Randall, and she just loved coding so much, and I thought I would give it a try. And I did and I loved it. And so I decided that no matter what I was going to make this a career and become a developer somehow, and I started working my way from there.

Laurence Bradford 3:46
Super interesting. What were you studying at college before you dropped out?

Madison Kanna 3:50
I was studying English because I love to write. And then a couple of different majors I switched around before I left I wasn't really sure exactly what I want. wanted to do yet and I felt college wasn't the best learning environment for me.

Laurence Bradford 4:04
Got it. So you were in school about two, three years before you dropped out. And then you said you worked in marketing a bit and you are modeling. And as you were doing that was when you decided to give coding a try. Yes. Okay, perfect. So when you first started learning, what resources were you turning to?

Madison Kanna 4:22
I enrolled in a ton of different online courses. And so the resources for me were I loved Udacity classes I loved there. I took a nano degree program. And I loved West boss from West boss calm, and I loved also front end masters. And those three resources. I loved all of those for me because they were all taught by real engineers. So the classes were taught by engineers who were actually out working in these large code bases. And then I also loved them because they were teaching really relevant skills in this fun, exciting way. And anyone can really go on and Take one of these pretty cheap online courses. And so for me, I just got addicted and started going into all sorts of online courses like those.

Laurence Bradford 5:08
And I have taken some Udacity courses myself, I've never done a Nanodegree. But I am asked about them a lot. So I'm wondering what Nanodegree did you do? And how did you find that experience? Overall.

Madison Kanna 5:20
I did the front end developer Nanodegree. And I love that experience, because it was all about so you watch the videos, and then everything is project based. So you get to build the front projects. And then they also had a couple of real engineers that you could do like a Skype call with or FaceTime with and you ask them questions. And what I love the most about Udacity is they all have their classes had this attitude of it doesn't matter who you are. This is a free course or a pretty cheap online course you can take it and if you have the willpower and you love to code then you can become a developer. And it was really fun and exciting for me to get into.

Laurence Bradford 5:58
That's great and so you did this Udacity Nanodegree in front end. For listeners who aren't sure who was bosses, he is a really well known instructor. And he does a lot of stuff with JavaScript and different courses around that, which is, you know, very front end heavy. And of course, front end masters as the name says his friend. So it sounds like early on you were taking a lot of front end courses. Is that what you're still doing today?

Madison Kanna 6:23
Yeah, so I started definitely, with a lot of front end and my first junior developer job was a front end job. And then in my new job, now I just transitioned to being full stack. So that's been like a crazy exciting change, just diving into the back end as well.

Laurence Bradford 6:39
So what technologies are you using? Or I guess, where are you using maybe at your first job if they're different now and how is that evolved?

Madison Kanna 6:47
Yeah, so in my first job, I was working really just with react and then completely on the front end. And then at this new job, I am transitioning into full stack so we are using react but then on the back end. We're using node. And so I'm diving into learning all about node and really getting my hands dirty with the back end. And I'm lucky at my new job, I have an incredible senior developer mentoring me and helping me through as I kind of make that transition from front end to full stack.

Laurence Bradford 7:15
Nice. I feel like mentorship is always really, really important. And yeah, you mentioned you have this new job and you've been there. That's super long yet and the company is called conversa. What does convert do do like what kind of company is it?

Madison Kanna 7:29
Yeah, so Conversio is an all in one marketing dashboard. And we really help empower small businesses and stores to make their marketing better.

Laurence Bradford 7:38
Awesome. So that's really exciting. And where are you based? Where I assume is this position that's full time like in person or is it remote?

Madison Kanna 7:47
Yeah, so I'm completely full time and we are remote. So we're kind of distributed all over the world and I really love working remote because I found in an office, there was a lot of interruptions and a lot of meetings. When you work remote, especially when you're a junior developer like me, and you're trying to just really build those coding skills, and working remotely gives me the ability to go for long stretches just completely focused on coding and not be interrupted, which really helps me learn so much.

Laurence Bradford 8:17
I actually had no idea when I was asking that question and it was remote. I assumed it was in person for some reason, but I know a ton of listeners are really interested in getting Remote Jobs. And just yeah, in my audience over I know a ton of people want that. So how did you find this remote job? Were you specifically looking for something remote? Did it just kind of happened on accident? Yeah. How did you go about it?

Madison Kanna 8:38
Yeah, so I actually was looking for a remote job because I really love working remotely. Like I said, when I have worked in an office before, there's a lot of different interruptions and a lot of unnecessary meetings, so many each day. And so I found as a junior developer, if I'm working remote like I am now I have these deep periods of concentration and I'm working on my skills, while also having meetings with older and senior senior developers to help mentor me. So I did decide that working remote was the best for me, because it's really I'm very self motivated. And just the whole experience of being in the office was a lot of interruption for like, deepening that coding skill that you want as a junior developer.

Laurence Bradford 9:22
So did you use a remote specific job search site to find this position? Or, like did you maybe know someone there? How did you get this role at Conversio?

Madison Kanna 9:33
Oh, yes, I actually didn't use I think it's called remoteok.com. And they had posted for a junior developer to work remotely with them. And then I applied and started talking to them going through the interview process from there.

Laurence Bradford 9:47
Oh, exciting. Okay, I definitely have heard of remote. Okay, I think I may be still get emails from them if they I think the email on new listings. So that's really awesome to hear that you found it through these remote job sites you applied and you end It Up gain the position.

Madison Kanna 10:01
Thank you. Yeah, it was awesome.

Laurence Bradford 10:02
Yeah. So another thing I'm going back now further in time, or I mean, going back more to your history, you know, we're talking about present day. But as I mentioned in the in your bio, in the beginning, you were doing modeling before you got into tech. And I feel like I've talked to people on the show before who've done acting, and I think music. I don't think modeling but I think there's definitely similarities like between the three. How do you think that modeling helped you get to where you are today? And like, was there any skills that you were able to pick up that are still applicable even though you're working remote and for like a tech company?

Madison Kanna 10:42
Definitely, I think so. I think with modeling, you have to be very present. And you have to you have all these people from the clothing designer to the photographer to different companies and and the whole shoot is centered around you performing and being in the moment. And so I think today, it's really helped my focus and also just the people's skills of being a model, you need to be very outgoing and delivering. And so in my, in my first job, my very first Junior dev job, which was about seven months ago, now, I really pitched myself not just as someone who wants a junior developer job, but as someone who could use my people skills to help customers or use my different skills. I'm coming from my non traditional background and use those to help the company succeed not only as a junior developer, but as someone who can just help move the needle in a company.

Laurence Bradford 11:35
Yeah, 100%. And I feel like, especially with acting modeling, maybe music as well. I'm not sure with like music additions, but I think going on these different kinds of additions that you would be in those areas would be super helpful or just interviewing like job interviewing in general. And as you mentioned, the people skills I feel like it would just give you lots of practice and just really make you feel comfortable, like communicating expressing your ideas. And yeah, just has a lot of overlaps with interviewing in general.

Madison Kanna 12:06
Definitely. I think it makes such a difference if you're just a lovely person to work with. And you're so excited about learning more, and coding, and you're really just excited to work for a startup and, and help them out above all.

Laurence Bradford 12:20
Yeah. So on that note, talking about interviewing and stuff, do you have any advice that you can share with our listeners, since you've already you know, been there done that you're a junior developer you interviewed at? Well, I guess like two different tech companies now, because this is your second job. You landed a job from these interviews, what things helped you prepare for your job interviews?

Madison Kanna 12:40
Definitely. One of the things that helped me prepare is, and I didn't just with my very first Junior dev job, I didn't just go and apply to a junior developer position. I really took it from a completely different angle. And one of the things I did when I was coding a lot and I knew I wanted to get that first Junior dev job is I do Join this program called praxis and they're a career accelerator program. And they're kind of all about getting real world experience and building your personal brand. And getting out of the the mindset of just trying to get one specific job title. And going into the mindset of what the founder, Isaac Morehouse, he calls the value creation mindset. So I found a startup that I thought was a really cool startup. And I pitched myself to them. And although I had no previous experience, no computer science degree, and, you know, I did have some coding skills, but you know, I'm sure there were others who had a lot more than me at the time.

Madison Kanna 13:38
But I pitched myself to them and said, really showed them and said, I can add value, I will do anything in this role. So I won't just be the junior developer, but I will also work pro bono and do anything you need. So if you need YouTube videos uploaded, or if you need copy editing done, I can do that. I have these skills. from my past, I can maybe work with customers because I'm very outgoing. And so I really took my non traditional past and I use that to help me get that first junior developer job and really internalize that mindset of creating value for a startup and not just saying, hey, I want this Junior dev job, give it to me, that's all I'm gonna do for you. And that made all the difference of getting my foot in the door. And then in that first month of the role, I was building us a Frequently Asked Questions page in react, and I was coding but then I was also writing the content on that page for them. And then I transitioned a little bit later into fully coding and having that as my, my job and that's what I do now, of course, is just coding 24, seven full time.

Laurence Bradford 14:44
Wow, that is really, really cool. And I don't think I've ever heard of practice before. Maybe I have, while you're speaking just like hopped over to the website really quick to check it out. But I love what you said about using your non technical skills and leveraging those two show how you could provide value for a startup and then landing a job at a startup. And even though Yeah, sure you were coding you were also doing these other things and just really just again, providing a ton of value to the company that you were working for. But backtracking just a tad, could you explain what practice is a bit for the listeners?

Madison Kanna 15:17
Yes, Praxis is a career accelerator program. And it's about apprenticing at a startup and building your personal brand and creating entrepreneurial projects. And so I graduated a couple of months ago, and it's really a customized program. So it's different for everyone. It's not a one size fits all, where you do a certain curriculum or get a certain job. And so for me, it was completely customized. I went in, I use their incredible advisors to help me start blogging, I went to Target and meetups focused on what goals do I want to achieve? And so one of the things I did was I said, I want to pitch myself find a great startup pitch myself to work for free. get my foot in the door as a junior developer and continue building my personal brand. from scratch and that's what I used Praxis to do.

Laurence Bradford 16:04
We're taking a quick break from this interview to hear a word from our sponsors who helped make the learn to code me podcast a reality.

Laurence Bradford 16:12
Fullstack Academy is a leading coding boot camp that helps students become great software developers and get jobs at top tier companies. Fullstack's advanced software engineering immersive course gives you the skills you need to launch your dream career in tech, with a cutting edge curriculum and supportive educational environment. Fullstack has helped graduates get jobs at companies like Google, Amazon and Facebook along with many others. Fullstack software engineering immersive is taught on campus in New York City and Chicago and is accessible from everywhere through Fullstacks remote, immersive go to fullstackacademy.com to learn more. Fullstack Academy making great people into great developers.

Laurence Bradford 16:59
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Laurence Bradford 18:02
Got it. Sorry, I'm sort of stuck on this practice thing, because I think it's really interesting, because it doesn't just involve like technical skills, right? Like anyone who wants to get a new job or switch industries could use practice or go through the program. Is that right?

Madison Kanna 18:18
Yeah, Praxiz is a great program, especially for young people who want to kind of get into that value creation mindset and start working for a startup and learn how to really add value and become invaluable to a startup. Definitely.

Laurence Bradford 18:32
Yeah, this is really interesting. Again, I'm on the website now. And it looks like even though there is a cost for the program, that you earn money during your apprenticeship, and then that makes up for the cost of the program. Is that right?

Madison Kanna 18:44
Yes, definitely. I think you come out with zero debt and it is a customized program. So most participants, you go into practice and you're, you're paying to get their advisors and all of their awesome resources, but then you're also being paid because you work as a paid apprentice. At one of the startups that they provide you with, there's a lot of startups that go to practices for hungry young people who want to start their career. And it is customized. So for me because it is a higher barrier to entry to get an engineering job. For me, I did go find a startup and pitch myself to work for free. And then I use praxis to help me keep building my personal brand. But for a lot of their other participants. They go into different roles in a startup, and they're paid right away.

Laurence Bradford 19:28
Got it? And so I guess it's really it's a practice, but maybe just more So generally, when you were first starting off in tech, and you said, you're pitching yourself these different startups, how many did you pitch yourself to until you landed a position?

Madison Kanna 19:43
Um, you know, what I did was I didn't just, the old thing I would do maybe a year or two ago is I would just blast out my resume to a million companies, you know, and I wouldn't really take the time to look at them. So I really just chose three or four startups that I thought was looks really cool. And then I wrote a long email to one not too long of an email. But I wrote an email and I said, this is why I'm passionate about you. I love what you do. And then I wrote about how, what if I worked for free for two months, and I really, you know, works for free and built my my, my engineering skills, but also while I built those skills, I will help out with other things that you need. Because, you know, startups need people who are hungry and want to add value, and not just people who stick to their specific job title. And you kind of learn that in practice, too. You learn about sending a value proposition and getting your foot in the door at a startup and creating value. And that was an amazing company to work for. They were called city builder. And by the time I left, I was doing tons of coding and being mentored. And so I got my foot in the door in that way and got so much experience that I wouldn't have. And I know working for free is not for everyone, but it definitely helped me just in those first couple of months before I transitioned to paid.

Laurence Bradford 21:01
Yeah, I think whether someone's working for free or doing freelancing and maybe charging like a pretty low rate for it, or just building their own projects, I think just having that hands on experience is so important. And it gives you actual projects or like, in your case, you were, you know, working for legitimate companies, and it gives you all this stuff to add to your LinkedIn or to your resume or to your online portfolio and just really bolsters you as a candidate overall.

Madison Kanna 21:27
Definitely, I actually applied to a few coding boot camps A while back, because I was going to do one of those and I got accepted, and I was planning on going, but I just realized that for my learning style, I thought, just really jumping into a real project and an internship might be a better step for me instead of a coding boot camp. So I decided to do that and get the real world experience of working in a huge code base.

Laurence Bradford 21:52
Yeah, yeah, I think having that real world experiences super valuable. And I'm looking now at you know, of course, you have your website, you have your LinkedIn I'm looking at all this stuff. It's all great. And you work full time as well. Oh, and also, you're now building a Udemy course, for beginners relating to learning JavaScript. So what does your day look like? Like? How do you balance all of these different things that you're doing?

Madison Kanna 22:15
That's a good question. Well, I one of the things that I do, and this actually, this helps me stay efficient. And it also really helps me It helps me learn to code and it still helps me as I as I go and, you know, continue learning to code. There's a book called Deep work by Cal Newport, and deep work is the ability to learn hard things and learn how to focus. And maybe about a year ago, I started applying the techniques of deep work. And since then, I've become so much more efficient. And also, I've had a much easier time learning how to code to deep work. Okay, awesome. And the book is about focusing and I guess, related to productivity as well. Yeah. It's really the idea that Cal Newport talks about his Our minds to our mind today are addicted to new stimuli. So our minds are addicted to all the notifications and interruptions of every day.

Madison Kanna 23:10
And so he really talks about how, and say you're learning how to code and you've been learning, you're learning some hard coding concepts, and you're in it and you're really struggling. And it can be kind of boring to focusing on that one thing for a long period of time, especially if it's a hard thing. And so your mind thinks, oh, I want to go, you know, check my email, or I'll go check Facebook really quick. And you're addicted to that new stimuli because we were so used to not focusing anymore. So then when you go check your Facebook or check your email, you do this quick check. And Cal Newport talks about how really doing that is killing your ability to focus and that's what makes it even harder to learn how to code or do something else hard. So deep work is really a technique to train yourself to focus more deeply. And yeah, that book is totally my Bible. It's really helped me learn how to code And just learn how to focus more.

Laurence Bradford 24:01
Yeah, I feel like I need that. I've been getting really into productivity and trying to find ways just to optimize, like, get just getting more done in the same amount of time. And that sounds like something that would be helpful for me as well. I'm definitely gonna check that out. And by the way, for the listeners, we'll include links to all the resources mentioned, including this book in the show notes. So getting back to you, Madison, and just your experience and your background, and going I think back even further in time. Another thing I found really interesting was that you were homeschooled. And I was curious, do you think that helped? Like, how has that helped you get to where you are today? And was there anything just in your larger code journey, that maybe you were really proficient or successful out that you could tie back to being homeschooled?

Madison Kanna 24:47
Definitely. So when I was homeschooled growing up, everything was about passion based learning. So I was never forced to learn how to read or forced to code or anything. It was always about, you know, I'm a little kid What do I love learning about, and I'm going to go chase after that. And and really dive into that and follow your passion. And and so when I started coding, and I wasn't really thinking right when I started, I wasn't thinking, Okay, I'm going to become an engineer, I must learn this and I must learn this thing. And I was kind of just thinking, Oh, programming, this is kind of cool. And then I really dove after it. And I was I got passionate about it, and I just kept following that passion. And not thinking too much in the beginning of is this the right thing to learn? Am I doing it right? Is this practical? You know, will I actually be able to get a job in this is that a practical and so I think being homeschooled and really learning to follow my passions and and to love to learn, really helped me dive after, you know, becoming an engineer and just falling in love with coding, and kind of going down that rabbit hole of following your passion building cool projects that you love

Laurence Bradford 25:59
Yeah. I definitely see that there could be a lot of similarities between being homeschooled. And then of course, also just teaching yourself how to code. And I would imagine that being homeschooled would make someone very autonomous. And just like, you have a lot of independence. And I feel like that's such a super important skill when you're transitioning careers and transitioning fields and trying to get a position in a new industry. And it sounds like also, of course, with your experience at practice, you really, were able to get a job super fast, like a tech job super fast. Actually, if you can recall, how much time was it between your first like tech job and it doesn't really matter if it was paid or not, like just any kind of job you had at a tech company for the time you first started learning.

Madison Kanna 26:44
And yeah, it was I actually looked at that recently. And it was about a year from, from really learning like what is JavaScript and being inspired by my sister to that first kind of unpaid apprenticeship when I was actually digging into this real codebase Nice. Okay, so about one year from from very beginning learning about JavaScript, you're just exploring what it was to the first apprenticeship.

Laurence Bradford 27:08
Okay, yeah. Awesome. Awesome. So what is next for you, you have all this stuff again, going on, you have the blog, you have a course that you're building, you work full time remotely for conversion to where your interests lie in, like, Where do you see yourself going in the future?

Madison Kanna 27:23
Yeah, well, really, my new job at Conversio, just really crushing it at that and jumping into the backend and getting to know my team more. They're incredible. And the senior developers who mentor me so that's a huge focus. And then the other thing I really focusing I'm focusing on is building my, my Udemy course and I'm giving it out for free to anyone who goes to my site, Madison canada.com. Because, for me, the way that I was empowered to really learn how to code and think that I can do this I can become an engineer. For me, it was those really cheap or free online courses. And they were you know, by Real engineers who are so excited and they're so excited saying, Hey, I'll teach this to you, you can do it. If you really want this, then you can do it. It's only a matter of how much can you learn. Go for it. And so that's really a huge passion of mine is helping other people realize that, you know, if you want to be a developer and you love to code, then you can do it. And so that's my other focus is, is building a Udemy course JavaScript for beginners. And that's my Yeah, definitely a huge passion of mine.

Laurence Bradford 28:28
Yeah. And it seems like by the time this episode comes out, I think the course will be finished and complete and available for people to take, which is really exciting. And I'm just wondering, how long did it take you to build the course from like, initial conception to launching it?

Madison Kanna 28:45
Definitely. It's taken me over three months, and and I'm just still finishing it up now. So it was definitely I was a bit of a perfectionist with. I've taken so many online courses, and I just really wanted to create something incredibly Have fun and with best practices. And so it's taken a little while definitely to build something that I really want to give out to people and hopefully inspire more people to start coding.

Laurence Bradford 29:10
Yeah. And do you see yourself building more courses in the future? Or maybe other kinds of online learning materials for people to use?

Madison Kanna 29:17
Definitely. Yeah.

Laurence Bradford 29:18
Yeah, that's really cool. I love when people give back. And that's something you know, I try to do not so much through online courses, but more so of course, with the podcast and the blog, and I just think there's so much to learn when you're teaching others and I'm thinking just off the top my head with a course like you're probably learning video editing skills, and even like I say, instructional design. So like how to outline a course in a way that makes sense to someone that's viewing it. So yeah, I think that's really great. And just a way for people to like grow their skills and as you said, contribute to a startup beyond just being able to code right because you never know maybe these like video editing skills you're picking up could help you and if you Your career endeavor?

Madison Kanna 30:01
Definitely. And I think one of the best ways to learn is to try to teach something to someone else. So I think if someone's listening, and they've just started coding, I don't think you have to be an expert to begin. So even if you know, one small thing about coding, you know, go to a meetup and give a talk about that, or write a blog post about that and start sharing what you know. And for me, there's just been so many opportunities that have come from just writing about coding and sharing what I know.

Laurence Bradford 30:28
Yes, I feel like there's a really famous quote that I can't think of right now. And I feel like it could even be Confucius or something like that. But it's all about Yeah, like teaching what you know, and how like, yeah, which I guess like just learning through instruction. And even if you were the teacher, through teaching others, you can still learn a lot.

Madison Kanna 30:46
And Google that later.

Laurence Bradford 30:47
Yeah, after Google that too. Yeah, it just kept on my head. I can't think about it. But yeah, so thanks so much, Madison, for coming on the show again, and I just want to ask you one last question. Of course, you're self taught You dropped out of college you were homeschooled, you have so much experience like in teaching yourself things. What advice would you give someone listening to the show who has no technical experience whatsoever, but wants a job in tech, what are a few things they can start doing now to just set themselves up for success in the future?

Madison Kanna 31:19
I think blogging or just in whatever way, sharing about what you're learning now, just start sharing now don't wait to be an expert start blogging, talking at meetups and getting involved in the community. And also, I think, pick a project that is you're really excited about that has something to do with something besides coding. So say you want to learn JavaScript. And you also really love Game of Thrones, like maybe try to create a game of thrones app and tie coding in with another one of your passions. And you'll be so excited to dive in and build that app even more than you would with just something else I think.

Laurence Bradford 31:55
Yes, I love that advice. And I think just building projects is so important and at least In my experience of building a project that you actually care about, or something you're passionate about will, you'll be much more likely to finish it. stick to it because I used to try to build things I had zero interest in. I would just give up after a few days because it wasn't really engaging me, you know?

Madison Kanna 32:15
Definitely. Me too.

Laurence Bradford 32:16
Yeah. Anyway, thank you so much Madison, for coming on. Where can people find you online?

Madison Kanna 32:22
Thank you so much for having me. Um, you can find me always blogging on my site. It's MadisonKanna.com. So it's Madison, and then K-A-N-N-A.com.

Laurence Bradford 32:32
Awesome. Thanks again for coming on.

Madison Kanna 32:33
Thank you.

Laurence Bradford 32:40
Thanks for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, and are interested in learning how to code, there's no better way to start than by learning HTML. I've put together an introductory cheat sheet that you may like to use if you're learning HTML, it covers HTML tags and how they're used. Proper html5 layout structure. aka the right way to set up your HTML files. A list of outdated HTML tags you don't need to use anymore, and lots more. If it sounds like something that could be useful to you download your free copy at learntocodewith.me/HTML. It was great to have you with me on the learn to code with me podcast today. I'll see you next time.